Here’s an interesting conversation between Art Schlachter and Dick about lighting - has lots of useful information.
Dan
Dick, my brake lights are not functioning so I have to get into the system and locate the problem. I suspect the problem is the pressure brake switch out on the brake reservoir. I have both the 57 & 58 Ply Svc Manual along with the suplimental Manual that is for the 59 model plus a large wall-mounted wiring diagram for the 59 Plymouth. What I need to know is how the tail lights are supposed to function. The wiring for the 59 tail lights is a little different than the 57-58 Plymouth in that the 59 Plymouth has “dual” red lights in each pod in the back different from the “single” red lights on the 57-58 models. (On the 59 model, both dual tail lights on each side are separated by the white backup light.) I have not pulled the tail light bulbs out to see if they are dual element bulbs or single element bulbs or a combination. I suspect all bulbs in the rear are dual element bulbs except for the backup lights. I envision when you turn on the parking light switch on the dash that one element in each of the four red tail light bulbs come on. (i.e. “running lights”) When you use the brakes that is when the 2nd element in each of the four bulbs come on. (i.e. “brake lights”). Using the turn signal will also cause the 2nd element (i.e. “brake light” ) to flash on/off depending on direction of turn.
When I turn on the parking light switch on the dash, do all four red tail light bulbs come on (i.e. “running lights”) or just one of the bulbs in each of the light pods come on ?
When I step on the brake, do all four red light bulbs come on (i.e. “brake lights) or just one of the bulbs in each of the light pods come on ?
In later years after 1959, all car makers did away with the pressure switch on the brake reservoirs in favor of a more reliable electrical plunger type brake switch under the dash board that is actuated by the brake pedal arm. I might consider wiring in a plunger type switch of this type and not depend on the brake reservoir pressure switch. Bob Hinds who owned the car before me, changed the brake fluid over from regular fluid to silicone fluid and that may have a negative affect on the pressure switch on the reservoir especially if the silicone has thickened over the years.
Thanks for your help,
Best Regards,
Art Schlachter
O K Art - Let me start by saying I tried the LED bulbs a couple of years ago and didn’t see much difference, price wise I decided to stay with the standard incandescent bulb. For as little as we use our cars they will last a long time. I even considered the plunger type switch on the pedal but wiring and alignment of the switch I deemed to much trouble. After all the factory system worked very well for many years. I have had trouble with the pressure switch once, I used brake klean to clean it and it solved the problem, once I bought a new one at NAPA and it solved the problem. Now when I have trouble with the brake light or turn signal its because a bulb has burned out., I replace with a new bulb, problem solved. All brake fluid should be flushed with new fluid every 3 years or so, but who does it, especially silicon, it tends to attract water some how. ???
The Red supplement page 72 has a lamp chart.
The front parking/turn signal lights take a 1034 or a 1157. Both are 32/3 candle power.#67 , 4 candle power which about equals the 3 candle power side of the 1034.
When the light switch is in first position the front parking and the rear inner and outer are all on.
Bulbs used on 59 Plymouth:
Hope this helps.
Thanks Dick, all your information is good. I went down to NAPA and picked up a new switch so I will assume that will take care of my problem. I didn’t realize when you put on the headlights the front parking lights go out. So from your explanation, when you pull the light switch on the dashboard to the first position (Parking Lights) all four red lights in back light up. When you push on the brake pedal only the outer lights on each pod brighten (come on). I would have thought that all four of the rear lights would come on when the brake is pushed. (in my mind the more lights the better when brakes are pushed – but it is not that way.) Since you mentioned that the LED lights do not do much better than the originals, I will skip trying to install them. This was good information. I will still attempt to install a plunger type switch on the brake pedal and wire it in parallel to the pressure switch on the brake reservoir, that way if either switch fails the brake lights would still work. After I get into it I might decide like you have already, that it is just too much trouble. (I have a bending machine that I can configure a holder for a plunger type switch in just about any shape) Will keep you posted on my results. Replacing the brake fluid every 3 years is probably a good idea, and I suspect the Bob Hinds hadn’t done that although he was very keen on keeping his brakes serviced. Since my other two cars use regular brake fluid and only the 59 has silicone, it would be nice if all my cars have the same type of fluid. I don’t think it wise to try and change the 59 Ply back over to regular fluid without replacing the wheel cylinders and master cylinder, so I will stick with the silicone stuff in the 59.
Thanks Much.
Art Schlachter
Art, if you need any help with your account - password reset, etc. - let me know and I’ll fix you right up.
Hmmm… Perhaps we should give Dick his own column. “Ask Dr. FiftyNine”
Dan
Dan; I had A problem in the past, my brake lights would work some times, some times not. It was caused by A sloppy right turn signal switch contact. I had replaced the brake light pressure switch, checked all grounds/bulbs etc.etc. The brake lights would work, then when I made A right turn while driving out and about and I returned back home they would be out. very frustrating. I discovered it in the garage while wiggling the turn lever. picked up A n.o.s. switch and has been all is well ever since. Just thought I would share this as well. Mark
Thanks Mark! A quirky thing. I noticed yesterday as I was fishing for my fender skirts (
Yep, really weird but the brake light wires run through the steering column to the turn signal switch.
Dick and I found out when we were working on his red 59.
Matthew, if I’m not mistaken - this is because the outer lens bulb indicates 1) the parking lights are on, 2) the driver intends to turn, and 3) the brakes have been applied. The parking filament is separate from the filament used to signal braking and turning, both in the same bulb.
If the driver applies the brakes at the same time he turns - and, if you didn’t interrupt the brake wire (by running it to the turn signal switch) - you would not get an indication that a turn is intended, because they light the same filament. You do
Have I stated that correctly, Dr. FiftyNine?
And here’s another question:
Why is it, that we park on driveways, and drive on parkways? I can’t figure that one out.
DUUUH. Wa chu talkin bout.
Why the wire from the brake pedal to the brake lights, goes through the turn signal switch…
I accept your explenation. In other words l have no idea.
big_m
June 23, 2016, 5:33pm
11
The turn signal and brake light wiring circuits were nearly the same on most domestic makes, '50’s through the late seventies.
I’m working on Martha’s wiring, and went looking for a good diagram for 6-wire turn signal switches that incorporate the brake light feature described in this thread - here’s a pretty good one that I found. You can see that when no turn is indicated and you step on the brake, both taillights light up. When you turn left, the left rear taillight is connected to the flasher, and the right rear taillight is connected to the brake switch and will light if you step on the brake. And, vice-versa.
), I have a turn signal repair kit in my stash. Picked it up somewhere along the line, just in case. Often I have to return the lever to the off position after a turn, but the lights otherwise seem unaffected. I’ll live with it… For now.
