Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??



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Mr Schamp
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 pm
Location: Clarkesville Ga.

Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Mr Schamp »

Hi Folks,

Not sure exactly where to start. First, I'm a new member and want to thank all those who have contributed to this forum. Given that intimate knowledge of 50's era Plymouths is extremely difficult to come by, this forum is an incredible resource for those of us who enjoy fix'n up old cars. Just searching the previous posts has already helped me tremendously.

Second, I have a question that I don't think has been asked/answered yet. The question is in regards to the possibility of dating the actual assembly of the engine (318 poly) in my car. I think it is original, but don't know how/if the stamped engine code corresponds to any of the numbers on the body plates. All of the casting numbers are correct for a 59, but the stamped code on the engine doesn't match the sequence number on the door jam or the number on the build plate that is on the cowl. The car was built (assembled) in L.A. where it seems the engines were installed randomly. Is this correct? Several of the previous strings mention "numbers matching"...

Here is what I know (Thanks to 59Plymouth Forum):
Block Casting Number: 1737929/ Block Stamped: MP8 050956 (318 Poly)/ Head Casting Number: 1818721-2 (under valve cover)/ Intake Casting: 1859229
Door Jam Plate: M294 100570 M = 1959/ 2 = Plymouth/ 9 = Sport Fury/ 4 = Los Angeles/ 100570 = Sequential production serial number #570 car built in the L.A. plant for ’59.
Data Plate information (Cowl): 30 1203 = Scheduled build date December 03, 1958/ NO 3033 = ?/ Model = MP2P/ BT 292 = Sport Fury/ PNT VV = Paint Code: V = Bronze top; V = Bronze bottom/ TR 338 = Bronze Interior/ SP (Blank)

Thanks Again for all ya'lls input,
Dan Barnette
Clarkesville Ga.

Fury - Right Side View.JPG
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Faulkner
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Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Faulkner »

Dan, thanks for posting! I am sure Matthew Keij will have plenty to add when he sees this post (he's 6 hours ahead of us in the Netherlands). Your Sport Fury seems to be in reasonable shape, apart from a few dings here and there - how's the paint? Please post more pix! And, welcome to the Forum.

Dan
"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
Mr Schamp
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 pm
Location: Clarkesville Ga.

Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Mr Schamp »

Since Mathew is a few hours ahead, I'll go ahead and add some information....
The body and frame of the car appear to be essentially rust free (except for the trunk - a pretty good size hole) and there are no major bashes to any of the body panels. In the pictures the body looks dinged up, but that is just crud falling from the oak tree its parked under. The junk falls faster than I can wash it off. The paint is pretty bad. Not that the paint has runs in it, but overspray on all sorts areas and not very glossy. I think wet sanding with 1500 or 2000 grit would help. I would have thought it was a home job, but I have a bill where somebody paid 5K for this pitiful work. The good news is the engine runs very strong and most of the bright-work has been re-chromed. When I bought the car it was already in this disassembled state. The tires were rotten and the engine would not turn over with the electric starter (I could rotate the engine with a wrench with the spark plugs out). Now it runs and drives... kinda-sorta. That's where 59Plymouths comes in. Like everybody with an old car, I wanted to see if the engine was original. If it had casting numbers showing it was from another year it wouldn't have mattered to me. Since all the casting and stamped numbers corresponded to a 59, I was curious if there was a way to verify if it was original or if it just happened to come from another 59 vehicle.

Here is the bad news... for me anyways... I absolutely love 50's era American Iron. When I found this car I jumped on it. No sooner did I get the car running when "Life" happened. Two years later and I'm no closer to really being able to commit the time and resources necessary for completing this project. If I hang onto her, she'll rot before I can put her back together. I've completed other car projects, so I'm fully aware of the time and energy necessary for this project. As such, I just listed her on Craigslist and hope someone with the same passion for 50's iron can take this project on.

Thanks again for all the help.
Fury - Drivers Side View.JPG
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Matthew Keij
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Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Matthew Keij »

I love your SF! Too bad you are selling it. I can come over and finish it for you :lol:

Only way to see if your engine is original to your car is to order the build sheet and hope the engine number is on it.
There’s no other way to check if yours is original to the car. I would assume with a 59 block it would be original. Most people replace them with big blocks when they go. Some keep the small block. The 318 is a mighty fine engine!
July 14th 2019 “the soul crusher”
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Matthew Keij
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Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Matthew Keij »

I spy a deluxe drivers side mirror, does it have the matching passenger side mirror?
Also I see it has a radio which was an option, even on the Sport Fury
July 14th 2019 “the soul crusher”
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Faulkner
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Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Faulkner »

Here are the pix from Dan's Athens, GA Craigslist post! Kinda looks like Faulkner - all in pieces :o :lol:

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"If it's new, Plymouth's got it!"
Mr Schamp
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 pm
Location: Clarkesville Ga.

Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Mr Schamp »

Hi Guys,
Yep, I does have the dual mirrors. You can see the re-chromed components in the table picture showing the grill.
In other news, I've had a bunch of calls today - way more than I expected. Even though I tried to discourage "dreamers" in the add, some seemed genuinely shocked when I told them I had more than 10K in it. I'm not trying to make money, just get some of it back. I think some thought they could buy it for 2k and part it out. Fortunately, it looks like I have a couple of actual restorer/project types coming to look at it this weekend. One of the callers already has a 59 SP he is working on that it in much worse shape than he expected. I think this car would give him a huge jump on his project plus an ample supply of spare parts given his other car. BTW: I told him of 59pltmouth.net and all the help it has been to me, and that the site would be indispensable for anyone with a 50's era Plymouth/Chrysler/Desoto...etc. One of the callers was asking if the car still had the dash pad - it doesn't. Any suggestions as to who might make them for a 59SP??
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Matthew Keij
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Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Matthew Keij »

Before you sell it please post or pm me the VIN and data plate if it has one!

Dashpads can be bought repro from justdashes. Only thing needed is the strip that holds it to the dash
July 14th 2019 “the soul crusher”
Mr Schamp
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 pm
Location: Clarkesville Ga.

Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Mr Schamp »

Thanks Mathew,
..and I meant to thank you for your advice as to the engine/body.
Attached is the number and build plate. I also attached a picture of the head casting number (under the valve cover) just for reference. I look through the forum and did not see where anyone had posted a head casting number or a picture of one for the 59. Maybe it will help someone confirm/compare sometime in the future.
Fury Build Plate 1.JPG
Fury Number Plate 1.JPG
Head Casting Number 1.JPG
Mr Schamp
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 pm
Location: Clarkesville Ga.

Re: Numbers Matching??? Is it possible to prove an engine is original to the car??

Post by Mr Schamp »

Well Folks,
Just an update on the sale of my 59 Sport Fury. I received a call Thursday night from a guy that was fairly close (approx. 2.5 hrs. away) that was working on a 59 and couldn't find the parts needed to complete the project. He said he wanted to drive up the next day - Friday to have a look. On Friday morning one of the callers from earlier in the week called and gave me a site-unseen offer over the phone with the understanding that I would hold the car until noon today - Saturday. When I called the guy who was supposed to be on his way, he wasn't. He said he was planning to come on Saturday. I had to tell him I was pretty sure the car was sold (ya never know though), but if the Craigslist add was still up on Saturday night to give me a call. Saturday morning the man who had agreed to buy the car showed up like clock work - with a rollback trailer and cash in hand.....
Point of all this is there is no shortage of people looking for a 59 Plymouth... Probably could have gotten more for it, but am very happy with the purchaser. Although he wouldn't be starting the project right away, he said he had been looking a long time for a good 58 or 59. He said he had seen a lot of ruff cases over the past few years and was glad to find a good piece.
Over the past week I talked with a lot of people who had 58-59 projects and I pointed them towards this forum. Hopefully the 59Plymouth forum will see a few members added to the ranks.
Thanks again for all the help -
- Mr. Schwamp
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